Cemoh 138: Award-winning CEO, Elena Gosse OAM

Simon Dell (00:01) Welcome to the Cemoh Marketing Podcast with your host me, Simon Dell. Thank you very much for joining us again. Let's get the introductions and all the little bits and pieces out of the way. I'm the CEO of a business called Cemoh, C-E-M-O-H.com. We are a fractional marketing business. If you wanna find out more about us, come and have a look at the website. If you would like to connect with me, you can reach out to me, [email protected].

or find me on LinkedIn, I'm pretty active there, not hard to find. And then finally, if you'd like to give us a review and tell us what you thought, I would love to hear that. And by all means, Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a review there and that is much appreciated. But enough of that, let's jump in to meet today's guest.

who have been taught how to pronounce her name properly. So welcome from AIS Walter, Elena Gosse. So let's obviously, let's do the first bit is obviously with your accent, you are not a native Australian. You've been here a long time, but tell us where you came from. Where's the origin story?

ELENA GOSSE (01:08) You got it perfectly!

It's interesting, I thought that my pronunciation is perfect. Unless someone actually pointed it out. Originally I came from Russia. My background, used to be professional actress of musical theater and I used to have my own TV show program called Family Express. And then moving 30, nearly 32 years ago to Australia, it just basically changed my life, put it from...

Simon Dell (01:28) Hahaha

ELENA GOSSE (01:54) where it belongs to be on being on the feet, turning it around, like literally moving from one part of the world to another, you just turn yourself upside down. And that's how my life felt from that point. A lot of homesickness, a lot of trying to feel in, a lot of trying to please in people, finding who am I in this new world. So as you can imagine, lot of... leadership, like the name of my book, Leadership Shit Show, where I share a lot of the stories. So for first few years, I went through homesickness, self-doubts, completely losing who I am, like who I am, what I stand for, what my purpose, what my mission. That was all lost until I decided you know what I don't give a That's who I am if people like that they will appreciate Whoever is not whoever doesn't like it. They are not part of my journey. So also that's where I found that being authentic authenticity is the key part and of course like because it was my husband At around the same time I moved to Australia

My husband started AIS enterprises, which now is water. And all I wanted just to be useful, just to help, just to do something. because like it was clear that I couldn't speak a word of English. and it was clear that, without speaking the language, even if you are chatterbox in your own language, like it's impossible to find a job, it's impossible to find your space. So all I wanted just to be useful and I started to help my husband around business. And then it came to the point I say, could you please stay away? Because managing people the way that it was 30 years ago, though, as I say, it doesn't work unless your people understand your purpose, unless they understand that you are one of them, but you are leader who can drive, who can lead, who can show them the way and make them believe in your vision, like nothing would happen. And I think with years, that's where we are pretty much now. So we started, like when I joined my husband's business, it was the company of three, working from a little shed. are now the company of 50 people. We've got three manufacturing facilities in Brisbane.

We design and manufacture chlorine generators for swimming pool and I'm not afraid to say that we are the best in the world. So we supply to 55 countries in the world, but innovation is not just part of our company's DNA, it's actually at the heart of everything we do. We identified as the best place to work by Australian Financial Review. We are credited with the, as an entrepreneurial organisation with the global Institute of Entrepreneurship. We are one of the top manufacturing innovators in Australia and it's just going on and on and on. We've got more than 50 national and international awards.

Simon Dell (05:32) So let's, I mean, there's a lot of story there. There's a lot of story there. Take me back to the, but take me back to, I really want to ask questions about musical theater, but I'm not gonna, cause otherwise we'll go off on a tangent there. But what was the catalyst for you moving from Russia to Brisbane? Was that your husband? Was that something that you wanted to do? Was that just, you know, how did you?

And why have all places Brisbane? I mean, not that I'm not biased against, I live here and I love the place myself, but that's obviously a big step. What was the catalyst that brought you here?

ELENA GOSSE (06:15) Okay, that's my second marriage. I never planned, never wanted to leave Russia. I was pretty much sad. I felt like a woman when men stand on their knee kissing your hand, giving you flowers, writing poems. In Australia, if I would wait when someone will open the door for me, I probably would still wait 30 years later.

Simon Dell (06:18) Okay.

ELENA GOSSE (06:40) Same with poems and giving compliments. Like at the age of 30, I thought, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with those people? I am Yelena Goss. I came to Australia. Where are all the ovations? Where are all the compliments? Yeah, but it's another story. six months after I divorced my first husband, who was an army officer, he was a helicopter pilot.

I met my now husband of 32 years. We met in Sakhalin Island. It's very close to Japan. It's far east of Russia. He came there because he used to be an air traffic controller. And he also had a friend who was working as a head of charter, like flying charter.

And Shell just started moving to Russia for joint projects with the Soviet Union. And because my husband, Kerry, he actually has Russian background. So he grew up in Australia, but he has Russian background. So he could speak Russian. So his friend approached him to go to this island, Sakhalin, which my husband had no idea what it is or where it is.

Simon Dell (08:05) Yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (08:05) And he finished up in Sakhalin and I used to work on TV and they basically had a, they visited a TV station to do an advertisement. And we met and we spoke for probably a couple of hours and they were leaving Russia in the same evening. And then for some reason I knew that he would come back, he would find me.

And he did in one month. And of course he proposed. Look at me. What else could he do? And then when he proposed, I thought about it and I thought I don't want to leave Russia. Like I'm pretty sad here. I've got my family, I've got my friends, I've got like everything. My life is there and I couldn't speak English.

Simon Dell (08:38) Ha

ELENA GOSSE (08:55) But he convinced me, I had my two daughters from my previous marriage and one of my daughters, she has cerebral palsy. So Katie then say, look, don't say no. I was trying to convince him to move to Russia, but he say, don't say no, come and visit for few months and then just make a decision then.

And when I came to Australia, to Brisbane, because that's where he was resided, when I came to Brisbane in 1993 in June, it just was the month I was turning 30. And basically, I just fell in love with Brisbane and its people immediately because like it was, and I could see of course so many opportunities for my girls, especially for Julia here.

and not being able to speak English. And we hear a lot about like Australia is a racist country. Look, I'm here for 32 years. I never, never experienced that. I believe it's what you put to the world. It's what world given back to you. You open your heart, the world is open heart to you. I used to come to the city center with a small piece of paper, with some address where I needed to go.

And it's just like not being able to talk. It's just like, and people start to chat to you and they just like walk with you whenever you need to go. And just like, I don't understand, but they just like continue making you feel welcome. And that's what I experienced. And I believe that Australia gave not just to my goals, it gave me so many opportunities. Look, being dumb in mathematics.

Simon Dell (10:33) Yeah. Yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (10:44) and not being able to speak English. I finished my second degree here in the business accounting. Years later, I was chosen as outstanding alumni with QUT. So if not that the opportunity and using your opportunity, like being determined to use your opportunity, then I don't know what other country in the world will actually provide you with that.

Simon Dell (11:12) Now, I obviously, you know, the background of this podcast was marketing and, and AIF has been a massive success story. said, 55 countries, I think you said you supply into around the world. and the company's been running for obviously well established. and as you said, lots of awards and all those kinds of things. How do you, how do you find...How do you guys find customers? What's been the best way? Because you're, this is a very niche product in terms of its industry and its market. And, obviously you're, you know, you're doing fantastic things, but how do people find out about you? What, and, has that changed from when the business started to sort of where you are now?

ELENA GOSSE (12:00) When we started in the business, basically was a very small pool shop. We did produce some very basic chlorinators, but the main focus was on selling chemicals, selling chemicals, making some cash, and...

And then when I joined, firstly I started to see, because no one heard at the time, 1992 no one heard about chlorinators in Europe or USA. When someone is saying, in US they are great in promoting themselves, being a marketer, know, and they say like...

US is great, we lead in the way. But I can tell you that their technology is very primitive when it comes to pool water disinfection, still is. So back in 1995 when we just started to travel around the world, we could see that not Europe, not US knew anything about that technology. So we were one of the pioneers started to introduce that technology. But then...

You quickly realise that you cannot go global unless you have a product that interested for there. And whatever is like in Australia, for example, everyone is looking for the tank, very robust. When it comes to Europe, they're looking for some sexiness, like not just the aesthetics of the product. It's much more important. And US is in between. So...

then you start to design that product. And I think...

That's where our focus on innovation came from. We started to be very intuitive in what market needs and basically design the product. At first, we were always there to go where no other company wants to go. For example, we introduced switch mode power supply in chlorinators.

Simon Dell (14:07) Mm.

ELENA GOSSE (14:13) Our industry was saying, no, it will never work. It's just this and that. But we succeeded. And now it's like a standard. No one even remember who introduced, but it was us. Then we developed our own anode material, which is at the heart of every chlorinator. And that helps us to make it not just sustainable, but longevity of the product. Because a lot of products that come to Australia, are very inferior product,

then finish up in our landfill. And unfortunately, our government's not doing much to protect local innovative technology. Even they say it's on their agenda. It's not happening. I can tell you now. And then we started to build commercial chlorinators. And one of our proudest achievement is basically to develop commercial chlorinator for competition pools. And that like that produce chlorine in very low salinity water because like salinity affect buoyancy so affect your swimming time.

So we produce chlorine in very low salinity and that is a must for any competition pool. So I hope Brisbane City Council is listening and they are our customers. in 22 pools, 16 pools have our technology. So we have good relationship. And when I want my business person of the year, I say, look, now when Olympic games are in the horizon, so...

Just watch me. I will knock on your doors. I will climb your windows. There is no way to hide from you.

Simon Dell (15:59) Yeah, I was gonna say that sounds that sounds quite scary, but I understand that is based, that's, that's phrase actually now used by many people who attended that lunch with Brisbane city council. So it's basically saying that it's not only we have to, we have to showcase our best athletes. It's time when we need to showcase to the world the best technology and best practices. And we know that there is no one in the world, like we introduced this freshwater chlorinate back in 2008 and until this point, no one was able to come even close to that. And if someone is making climbs, that's not the reality. In marketing, people do make climbs, right?

Those early days of the business when you were effectively at some point you were a startup, you? were what I think you said earlier on, it was a team of three to start with. How did you get your first customers? it really you just sort of knocking on doors and going out and seeing people? What was the...What was the struggle back then when you were that, that startup?

ELENA GOSSE (17:16) My husband was the best salesperson you could possibly... He was good in small talks and gossiping and all this stuff. So that works in industry. I think it's still the main factor. And it took me years and years and years before I mastered. I don't think I'm there 100%, but small talk is very essential.

Simon Dell (17:21) Really? Okay, yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (17:46) And industry wasn't that big and wasn't as competitive. There were about two, three players, like main players in chlorination. So we were operating, like we had basically only three level of prices. Like we had retail price, trade price, and it was something else, an expert price. So basically it was very easy, but as competition become, and now I...

don't even know how many people produce chlorinators. I think we were trying to count, it's about 86, and it's only what we could find. Like the majority of them are crap, that is I say they will finish up in our landfill because like longevity is not there, the function is not there, but they've you with price.

ELENA GOSSE (18:39) So the word of mouth that is a repetitive customers that would propel you forward. think also what make us stand apart our innovation, course, then of course that we are integrity is very like we are of very high integrity the company. So we only promise what we can deliver.

All our data, whatever our claims, when I say that we produce chlorinated is that produce very low salinity, we've got independent university research that proves our claim and the water saving like in 150 meters swimming pool, our technology saves 1.6 million liters of water annually. Can you imagine 100 pools or whatever, how much water can we save?

Simon Dell (19:26) You, yeah, you must, I guess obviously you've you've said one awards. You've done a lot of speaking. I'd imagine you've seen a lot of other entrepreneurs out there in Brisbane, some in manufacturing, I would say some outside of manufacturing. What do you what do you think the biggest mistake is made by people starting a business today?

ELENA GOSSE (19:58) I think the biggest mistake is people trying to sit with one bum on hundreds chair. They want to this and that and that and that. And I think it's one of the thing what makes, what stand us apart. It's no matter what after global financial crisis, during pandemic, when everyone is trying to diversify, everyone is trying, and that's like what books will tell you, diversify, diversify, do this, do that.

Simon Dell (20:04) Yeah

ELENA GOSSE (20:25) Like we always were like when the worst financial crisis and companies started to diversify companies started to move out of Australia to put it to China We decided no we are Brisbane based company if anything we focused on rebranding and we double down our effort on their On our core business and I'm so glad that we did because we are I can truly say we are experts in water disinfection, wire electrolysis. There is no one like us. Because everyone is trying to, oh, we're doing filters, we're doing pumps, we're doing this, we're doing that. We are doing only the water disinfection wire electrolysis and our technology, like our customers, all the testimonials that we've got from our people and how they speak. So this is the best marketing when your customers, when you let your customers speak, not yourself, because like, I can talk about our technology for hours, but when you let your customers speak about how the technology changed their life, how they save water, how like say in the valley pool or centenary water pool, and they say, we have Olympians training with us and everyone comments on the quality of water and they don't understand why. And they say, and we attribute it to AIS because they know it's because of our technology, the water quality is so good.

Simon Dell (21:50) Where do you see the growth then in your business? As you say, 55 countries. You have a product that lasts a long time. And I guess, you know, there's a challenge around that as well is that, know, people don't need to replace it as often, which is obviously a good thing from a landfill perspective. But where do you guys see the growth in your business in the sort of next five years? Where are you looking to see, you know, to...grow revenue or grow market share?

ELENA GOSSE (22:22) North America and Europe, because North America is still untapped for us. Even we sell product to 55 countries. We haven't touched North America for long, time. It's only from year 2018 that we started to really look at that market.

Simon Dell (22:24) Okay.

ELENA GOSSE (22:49) And then it took us a few years to complete certification. And that's when I'm saying that our government not doing anything to protect local technologies, try to enter US market. So it cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars and three years just to complete certification for the product that we know works well, but they will just...

Simon Dell (23:13) Right.

ELENA GOSSE (23:14) keep putting barriers and barriers for other, for international businesses to enter. And then the numerous, of course, like the pandemic slowing it down. So we were ready to go with the case study, with the MGM resorts, but then it just like through pandemic people left. So it didn't go through.

Simon Dell (23:27) Mm.

ELENA GOSSE (23:39) So we had to basically start from scratch, attending again trade shows for me speaking at the industry conference in US. And now we have a partner who is willing, who wants to sell our product in US. And I believe that would be the best collaboration that will just skyrocket us to... to the market. we just started like one technology, one unit was sold and currently installed, going through commissioning in US. And one unit is on the way to Las Vegas to be installed in the resort world. And the deal is that we will do marketing, we will record their testimonials and case study from where we take the water quality and to what level. So that will also help our new partners to sell that unit.

Simon Dell (24:42) So, you know, if you were to advise other people, you know, wanting to move into, you know, the export market, is that generally how you operate in all of those 55 markets with partners selling your product? Or does it vary from market to market?

ELENA GOSSE (24:55) Yes, you need, it varies from market to market and varies from product to product because for say for residential products, you need a distributor. It's a must. For commercial because like commercial, it's any public pool, school, university pools, water parks. Then you can go through pool builders or product specifiers or directly to pool engineers at that particular, in that particular organization. It different strategies for everything. I would suggest to work with the Trade Investment Queensland because they providing a lot of help entering awards like Lord Mayor Business Award. But then when you enter this awards, make sure that you follow up and you climb the windows before you fall.

Simon Dell (25:34) Okay.

ELENA GOSSE (25:51) Forget what you look like and what your company represents. But I must say that Lord Mayor and Economic Development Agency, they are our great supporters, great supporters. And they visited our facilities a few times, so they know what they're talking about when it comes to our technology. And they know what our technology... when it comes to operation. That's why we keep getting Brisbane City Council when they are looking for new technology for pull-up grades.

Simon Dell (26:28) Yeah. Now you just did sort of sidetracked there. You mentioned one of these, one of the these going into Las Vegas, where, where in Las Vegas, just in case I'm there in the next six months.

ELENA GOSSE (26:40) Resort World, it's one of their eight pools. So it's a big hotel chain and they also have cruise ships. So you just need to get into that market so then we can expand. We are looking for say big hotel chains like our technology at Sheraton Port Douglas. So if you happen to be at Sheraton Port Douglas, every pool there, lagoons, they are treated with our technology.

Simon Dell (26:43) Okay.

ELENA GOSSE (27:09) Intercontinental at the...not Whitsunday, what is the island? Yeah, Haming. So our technology is there in every small pool and also in the resorts, in the continental, in the Hope Islands. So it's a lot of areas where we are in and we've got very amazing case studies and testimonials from our customers.

Simon Dell (27:16) Haming Islands.

Yeah, look, I think you know, you've mentioned that a couple of times and I think a lot of businesses Don't realize the power of a good case study the good a good testimonial and I think you mentioned it as well a good video testimonial video testimonials are just you know, they're absolutely gold because if you can, know show people in a 90 second video how how good your business is that pretty much does the sale for you, so I think that's a that's a huge lesson for everybody to learn out there irrespective of the size of the scale of your business. But my last question to you today was, this was more of a sales question, sales marketing question. I guess that one of the challenges you must face in a business like yours is that there must be a relatively long sales cycle. From that initial conversation from a customer to actually the product going in, I'd imagine that could be years. Is that right or?

ELENA GOSSE (28:41) Again, depending on the product. with residential product, we have customers like the Swim Art. We've got customers like Pool Works. They are very big franchises across Australia. So they buy in our product. So it's just like the customer support is paramount there and it's repetitive business. And we've got distributors that are with our company for the past 30 years and they still with us and they...

Simon Dell (28:43) Okay.

ELENA GOSSE (29:10) like they are baking up our product and they just like the best marketing goes through them because like even when they bombard it with shiny objects like new products or whatever, they still very loyal to local brand. But when it comes to commercial, yes, the cycle can be, it can go up to three years and one of the tips like follow up is crucial.

It's sometimes, and you know I am CEO, which is, you know what CEO stands for, right? Do you? In my case, it's Chief Entertainment Officer.

Simon Dell (29:43) Yes, yes. Yes. I met another chief entertainment officer years ago and they had DJ decks in the office and they used to, you don't strike me as a DJ though, but you know.

ELENA GOSSE (29:57) You probably don't know me well. yes, so the follow-up is crucial because like for me, I'm great in making an initial contact and just start the conversation, everything, but I'm not great in following up because like I'm sideline with some other issues.

Simon Dell (30:04) Ha ha ha ha! Okay.

ELENA GOSSE (30:26) And it's very important to have someone like our chief of sales and marketing, Lee. He's just incredible in terms of follow-up. He's so disciplined in that. And sometimes, you know, you are bombarded with hundreds of emails each day, and you just go away, go away, go away. So majority of them as CEO, like, unless it's something catch my eye in the first line or whatever, I'm just deleting that.

But if someone is like persistent, persistent, persistent, one of like one in 20 times you probably click and just like what is that? And that could be something, my God, why I didn't open that? And then when people are then they are more likely to take it across the line.

But if you just made your initial contact and they're not full up, okay, they told me they will come back to me. I'm waiting when they will come back to me. That most likely it will be never.

Simon Dell (31:26) Yeah, if someone's selling to you, Yelena, what's... Because you strike me as someone who knows what they want, right? I say that in the politest way that I possibly could there. But if someone was selling to you, if someone was selling like a supply, even if it was just not inside your business, even if it was like...

ELENA GOSSE (31:43) Don't be shy. I can handle.

Simon Dell (31:54) you know, something else in terms of a, you know, luxury item or a car or whatever it is. What cuts through to you? What makes you pay attention to a salesperson?

ELENA GOSSE (32:06) It depends. If it's car and say when I was buying my Porsche and I came in and they started to talk about the engine and I say, can we cut that? Look at me. It's all about the look. Let's go to the external things. When it comes to the product, yes, we know exactly what we're looking for. And I don't like the...

Simon Dell (32:20) Yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (32:30) cheap salesperson strategy. I start here, you start there and then we negotiate. I don't have time for that. Unless you come to me with an attractive offer, I would say, thank you very much, don't waste my time. And I would tell them exactly why I say that. So I say the way I work and I work that with our customers.

Simon Dell (32:46) Yeah. Yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (32:57) I give them the best offer I can possibly and I say that there is no further negotiation. Guys, I'm giving you the best already. So that saves your time, that saves my time. We're all busy, we're all bombarded with other stuff. just let's, if you want my business, give me the best offer.

Simon Dell (33:17) Okay, perfect. Last question, if anyone wants to reach out to you, if they wanna talk to you, ask you a question, aside from lunch next Friday, if you're in Brisbane, I think there might be two tickets left or something like that, but what's the best way for people to reach out to you? And do you wanna plug the book one more time as well? So, yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (33:36) Yes, and I want to mention because when we were talking to Janelle and I say we will have those books for sale, it calls Leadership Sheet Show. People who read it, they say they can go through this book in two to three hours and they can't stop until they actually finish because it's so interesting. And the offer is that whoever will buy books at the event or at Amazon and bring us with them. Firstly, like I will sign it and secondly, 100 % of the profit will go to your charity.

Simon Dell (34:10) Awesome, wonderful. And so, and if someone wants to reach out to you, you're on LinkedIn, but yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (34:15) I am on LinkedIn, I am on Instagram or go to aiswater.com.au website. I'm always happy to help if someone is looking for a guest speaker while I am not practicing, but I'm making it stand out presentations. Like I've got two new brilliant keynote, which cost leaders and which call Leaders Enhance Life and Lead Like a Woman.

So anyone is looking for the presenter for first five offers, like inquiries, I promise I can do it for free.

Simon Dell (34:54) Yeah. Awesome. And my last question, why the duck on the front of the book?

ELENA GOSSE (35:00) You see, I actually designed this duck, Chad GPT, because I was looking when I was working with the Gramma factory because they were editing and helped me to work on the book. And when we were looking, working on the cover, and that was part of the initial design Gramma factory gave me, but the duck...

Simon Dell (35:03) Okay, yeah.

ELENA GOSSE (35:29) I wasn't happy with the duck because like a duck usually and mother duck represent the leadership. But because it's little shit and it has on its head little shit, look how dumb he looks or confused. and why, like what is this book about? It's basically about the cycle of like we're going through because people are afraid of the word little shit, but we use shit all the time.

I counted about 56 ways we are using this word now in our life. basically, but when it comes to leadership, for some reason we think it's not a good thing. But I can tell you, we need to embrace that and why we need to embrace it because majority of our time we are in leadership. And that's where we come out about innovation. That's where we understand that change is needed in our life.

And then we decided, okay, I need to do something with that. And then we are making a shift, leading a shift. And then for the short period of time, we're building our muscles, we're practicing our moves, we're going through innovation cycle. And then for the short period of time, we are leading a ship. And unless you are not an ego driven person, and unless you like the one, I know everything.

So when you're in that, I know everything, you are finished. We are constantly learning something new. So it's like a cycle is going in spirals up and up and up, back in little shift, leading a shift, leading a shift, back to the square one because you want to learn new skills, you want to do something with your life that propels you.

Simon Dell (37:15) Yeah, awesome. Hey, thank you very much for your time. It is gonna be fantastic to meet you again next Friday. And I may have had a few drinks by the time we meet next Friday. So that's gonna be highly entertaining.

ELENA GOSSE (37:28) That's okay. Let's talk about your fractional marketing before that.

Simon Dell (37:33) We will do. We will do. Thank you very much for your time today. It is much appreciated and have a good rest of your Friday.

ELENA GOSSE (37:39) Thank you, Simon.