S2 I EP.8 - Simon Dell I Cemoh Fractional Marketing Podcast

Simon Dell (01:15)

So I think that's actually started, there we go. That's how much I was prepared for that, because I was still trying to connect it to LinkedIn. ⁓ Welcome to the CMO Marketing Podcast, the Fractional CMO Podcast. ⁓ I am your host, Simon Dell. I'm just actually doing this entirely myself today, because I'm just gonna talk about...

something very specific to people who are moving into the fractional CMO business. ⁓ So I wanna sort of address a few things. ⁓ This is a bit of a training session for those of you that are thinking of moving into the fractional CMO space. And I don't want this to sound off putting, but I also wanna make sure that when people are... ⁓

moving into that, ⁓ that they are prepared. ⁓ Because that is part of what we want to do as SEMO and help people grow their fractional CMO business or fractional marketing business. So that's what today is about. ⁓ If you want to find out more about us, www.semo.com, ⁓ can find me, Simon Dell, on LinkedIn.

There are some other Simon Dell's, it should be pretty obvious which one's me. ⁓ So please come and connect on LinkedIn no matter where you are in the world, especially if you're overseas. New Zealand, Middle East, North America, Europe, love to connect with you and talk to you about your fractional ⁓ marketing journey. So I've got 10 points that I'm gonna go through today. ⁓

Probably should take, I'm gonna guess 20 minutes or so. ⁓ But for those of you that know me, know how I can talk. ⁓ So, it could be a lot longer than that, but we'll see. ⁓ And apologies as well for the ums and ahs that I do through this because my brain works in a way where I'm sort of processing what I'm about to say before I'm gonna say it, so.

I do tend to and R a bit, which I've noticed quite recently doing other videos. So eliminating ums and Rs is one of my personal goals, but let's get into it. We will start with number one. Now these are in no particular order because they're in no particular order for no other reason.

So number one, things to do before you become a fractional CMO. when I say before, I'm assuming that currently you're in a full-time job, somebody else is paying a salary, you're sitting there thinking, I don't wanna do this anymore, I wanna go work for myself, I'm a great marketing person, I've been a CMO before or a marketing director or a senior marketing person.

and I want to go out on my own and build my own consultancy in the fractional marketing space. So this could be applied to a marketing consultants, marketing strategists, fractional CMOs, whatever you want to call yourself. But for argument's sake, we're going to work on the basis that it's a fractional CMO. So job number one, sorry, step number one, really clarify your niche in your target market and

That should necessarily come from your past experience. So for example, Kelly, who was on this show a couple of episodes ago or last episode, whenever it was, she has a background in health, wellness, that space. That's pretty much all she's done for her entire career. She is going to focus as a fractional CMO in that space. Now that's really well defined.

That's really niche. She knows who she's targeting. She knows what she's doing. ⁓ And she built a great plan looking at industries, business sizes, potential targets that she wanted to work with. And with that in mind, we can then support her and help her target those clients. ⁓

There are different niches for different people. There are, met one down in Sydney who had a background in hospitality industry. Now she really wanted to sort of move away or move out the hospitality industry. But my point was it would be a lot easier for her to win potential clients in that industry. And then think about moving into other industries whilst you have a comfortable income where you're generating revenue. So I think...

Do what you know you're good at doing. Even if you want to potentially expand, potentially expand and move into other areas, focus primarily on your background. You know, the ones that the area that you've been operating in. And that could be defined by industry verticals. That could be defined by skill sets. Could be e-commerce. You could be an expert in e-commerce, across different industries. That could potentially even be geographical.

You know, if you're an expert, you know, in a certain particular geographical area, there's lots of different ways of defining that niche, but it's important in this first step to really understand who you're targeting and who that target market is. And I've said this many, times in advisory sessions that I've been involved in.

The best businesses that I see really operate in a particular niche and that's why we sat there and went, okay, our niche is fractional CMOs. That's the area that we're gonna operate in and that's what we're focusing on. Anything else that we do will be set aside out of that, right? So that will be in a separate business or under a separate brand. But CMO is about fractional marketing people, specifically CMOs.

So think about your niche and your target market. And again, you're in marketing. I'm not gonna teach you to suck eggs, but those are things that you should be doing. You know, first step, that sort of stuff that you should be doing in your sleep. Second step is define your value proposition, your framework and all your processes. Now, actually what I would say here is what you don't wanna necessarily do is go down this giant rabbit hole of processes and things like that.

It's very easy to sit there, I'm gonna do things like this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. What I would say to you is often you get yourself into a position where you have to think on the spot and compromise, certainly in the early days. In the early days, you sit there and go, hey, this client wants to work with me, but doesn't wanna work in the same way that I wanna work, but they're gonna be good paying customers, that's a good potential revenue.

It's great to have processes. It's great to have systems. ⁓ But just be aware that if you go too far and you stick too close to your processes and your frameworks, sometimes that's not what the customer wants. So I think it's important to be flexible ⁓ to a degree. ⁓ Not.

flexible that you're completely compromising what it is that you believe in and what you're do, but I think you need to be flexible. So define your value proposition, articulate clearly what results you expect to deliver, what you're going to do in the business, make all these things very, very clear to ⁓ your potential new clients as you move forward. The clearer you can make that, the better. And I've...

I've shared this quote probably a hundred times in the last few years from my business partner and co-founder, Matt. One of the things he always, he said was people don't buy the cheapest product. They buy the product that they understand the quickest. Now I fully believe that. People will buy the product.

to service the people that they understand the quickest. So the quicker they understand you and what you can do for them, and the clearer that you can make it, the more likely they are to buy from you. So that's number two, define your value proposition, value and process, framework and process. Third one is a strong personal brand. Now there is a video by a gentleman called Eugene Healy. Now if you go to LinkedIn and look up Eugene,

He talked a lot about, he talks a lot about a lot of things. And I don't think Eugene's ever made a bad video. ⁓ But there is a video that he specifically made. And this is, we're talking about this on the end of October. He made this video, I think about two to four weeks ago. So early October, 2025, depending on when you're listening to this late September, 2025, about the growth of personal brands in businesses. So this is about you growing your personal brand.

Katisha Hembrow, who was on an early episode here, she talks about how to use LinkedIn for that. Your personal brand is the gateway for you to grow your business. So everything that you do as well, you should have already defined that personal brand. Who is your personal brand? What is it? What does it stand for? All those kinds of things. But make sure that that's reflective in your LinkedIn, your website, your portfolio. Make sure it reflects your experience and your focus.

And again, Eugene Healy, go and watch some of his videos, go and follow him on LinkedIn, but you need to define your personal brand. Number four, completely different to the first three. Prepare some cash reserves. You need to prepare your business.

do not make any money for the first six months. Now, when I left a role and I went out on my own as a consultant, which would have been...

2016 I think. My son was due to be born, I think three or four, my first son was due to be born three or four months later. I made the mistake of not having any cash reserves. I hadn't built up a pool of cash that I could sit there and go, if I don't bring any clients on, I've still got this cash to survive in the next six months.

I was fairly, I say lucky, I don't believe in, I believe in luck, but I believe you make your own luck. But I was slightly fortuitous in the sense that I'd already had two or three approaches from clients, which we'll talk about in a minute, ⁓ who wanted me on as a consultant once I'd left the agency environment that I was in. So I was kind of stepping into roles immediately. And

But I would say if you don't have those lined up, and again, as I said, we'll talk about those in a minute, but if you don't have those lined up, you need to have some cash ready to survive for a set amount of period, ⁓ a set period. Now that might be three months, that might be six months, that might be 12 months. If you can have 12 months worth of cash set up, life's good, okay? ⁓ And you have a little bit more flexibility than the clients that you can take and all those kind of things.

But have a think about building up your cash reserves. So if you've got zero cash in the bank now in October 2025, please, please, please don't quit and start a new job, a consultancy job in January 2026. Build up some cash reserves, six months, save, save, don't go on holiday, put money somewhere and go, right, I'm now ready to go knowing that potentially the first three months is going to be very lean. Potentially the first six months is going to be very lean.

So that's point number four, prepare your cash reserves. Point number five, case studies. It is always vital to have some case studies. It's actually one of the things that we do particularly poorly and I'm trying to change that. And case studies are a five step process. Who was the client? What was the problem? What did you implement? What were the results? And what was the client's comments at the end?

So if you didn't hear that or you missed that, go back, rewind, listen to that again, right? Those are your five step testimonial, sorry, case studies. And you want 800 to a thousand words, you want some pictures, and most of all, you want some numbers in that, okay? I did this and I did that and all those kinds of things. And we achieved this and we achieved that. And that's pretty good point. I've had this conversation with somebody I was coaching once who was...

She was very nervous about talking about her wins and her successes in her roles. And I said to her, why were you, why were you nervous about that? And she made the point to say, because the wins weren't always about her. You know, she was part of a team who achieved these things. And totally fair point. But that's kind of like saying, you know, somebody like Christiano Ronaldo or Messi.

you know, sit there and don't take the plaudits of being, you know, the best footballers in the world and all those kinds of things. You can still have success with the team and you can still be very good at what you do. Those aren't mutually exclusive things. You can do both. So if you want to write a case study, by all means, write it about the success that your team had, but then make it very clear as to how you contributed to that success and why your role was vital and the specifics around

those successes, especially in the leadership space. So case studies are absolutely vital. If you can do a video case study, you get the client on board, absolutely. But just from a ⁓ text case study. And again, one of the other challenges is that the client may not want you to mention them. So you don't have to still write the case study, you sit there and go, well, a manufacturing company that I was working for that was manufacturing.

widgets, again, we don't have to name what it was that they were manufacturing. We can just say, this is manufacturing company I work for, they manufactured widgets, this was the problem, this was the challenge, this was what I did, this was the outcome, this was the client's testimony at the end. So get some case studies together.

Everyone I've ever hired in a role has come to me with really clear examples of their success. And a case study is exactly that. You could argue that's what a CV or resume is, but I think some people would be better off doing a resume where you're just listing for case studies.

six case studies or whatever. And again, the lady that I mentioned earlier that I spoke to, I said to her, when someone says to you, what are you looking for in a role or what you're looking for working with a client? Turn around and say to them, I'm looking for my next case study. I think that's hugely powerful. I'm looking for somewhere where I can achieve something that becomes a case study. And I think if you are a

client listening to that from a fractional CMO perspective, you'd be like, I ought to hire this person. So that's number five. Number six, ⁓ set up your business structure. Now there's an argument, I'm obviously talking about this in Australia, so different countries, different business structures. Here in Australia you've got one of,

Three options, okay? ⁓ Number one is a personal ABN. It'll literally take you five minutes to do those online. Easy, easy to do. ⁓ Relatively easy at the end of the year to do your tax. Not particularly costly. You know, it is what it is. It's a ⁓ personal business ABN. The second thing is a family trust. Now I'm not an accountant. I'm not here to give financial advice in any way, shape or form.

but there are certain benefits of trusts, family trusts that you need to talk to your accountant about and have a conversation with them. And there's obviously various things that you can do with various companies and trusts and et cetera, et cetera. The third way is to do a PTYLTD, so a company. And a company requires directors, it requires shareholders, shareholders agreements, et cetera, et cetera. If you're on your own,

there is often not much point in doing a company unless you envisage maybe four or five years time or even two or three years time that you potentially get a business partner on. It is.

I'm gonna not say it's impossible because again, this isn't financial advice and I'm not entirely 100 % sure in this space if there's any accountants out there happy to be corrected on this. But it is impossible to sell a personal ABM because it's personal. It's nigh on impossible or very, very hard to sell a company, a family trust because it belongs to a particular family and has beneficiaries and.

all those kind of things. I don't think it's impossible, but I think it's very hard. It's a lot easier to sell or sell parts of a company, PTY LTD. So if you see yourself expanding, growing into other areas, bringing on business partners, doing shareholder agreements for potential staff, you wanna have a company. What I would also say is it is quite hard.

to move from one to the other once a business has been established. It's not impossible, but you can't turn a personal ABN into a company ABN. It doesn't work like that. You would have to stop the company, personal ABN, and start a company ABN, at which point all your trading, you need new bank accounts, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So whatever one of those you decide to start with, go and get some advice from a qualified accountant or a lawyer and work out how you're gonna have that set up.

have that set up before you leave your full-time job. All of these things I'm saying today should be done before you leave your full-time job. So get the business structure set up, make sure you sort insurance, how are you handling invoicing, contracting, your tax obligations, understand how to do all that. It doesn't take hours. Xero does a lot of that for you. If you're using Xero, there are other tools that do a lot of that for you as well.

get that all set up first.

Seventh point, establish pricing and service models. Again, this sort of comes back to my point number two about defining your framework and processes. It's all very well sitting there saying, I'm gonna be this price per day or I'm gonna cost charge this amount per month. But again, I think in the early stages, flexibility is the key. Flexibility to talk to the clients and go, yeah, look, I'll work to your budgets.

you can sit there and they say, well, if you turn around and say, hey, I'm $6,000 a month and that's the lowest I'll go, and the client goes, I've got a budget of 4,000, you're gonna sit there and go, damn, I'm not gonna get that client, or worse, still lose it to somebody else. All right? Your challenge then is to sort of go, okay, well, how can I be a bit more flexible, get my price down to 4,000, maybe less.

you know, I'll, won't commit to certain KPIs. I won't commit to certain times working on their business. My, you know, what, whatever it might be, there's ways and means of, of, changing those kinds of things to sort of fit within a framework that is acceptable to the client. The higher the price, and I'm going to say this, and this is going to sound entirely obvious as I say it, the higher the price you go, the more narrow the margin, the more narrow the market you have to target.

sounds the obvious, most obvious statement, right? But if you're going to sit there and say, Hey, I'm $10,000 up. Well, there was a, there was a, I, someone I know, can't remember his name now off the top of my head, but he was like, Oh, I'm

What did he, he was, look, $2,000 a day, something like that, right? Now, if I'm a client, if I'm hiring someone for $2,000 a day, maybe I get them in for a day a month, two days a month, right? And if that's his position, that's what he wants to do, then fine. Maybe I make them come in, they sit in board meetings, they work with the team, that day is a strategy day, they're in there, $2,000, they're leading the whole day, right?

Or I sit there and go, well, I could price myself a lot less than that and do half days, number of half days and be in the business more often, be in the business more frequent, affect more change, become more of the team, become a bit stickier. I think it's very easy to sack, cancel someone who is $2,000 a day and is there once a month. I think it's a lot less easy to sack someone who is there charging.

$700 for a half day and is there every week.

⁓ Those are the things that you need to think about. We have a guide on our website, simo.com about pricing structures and things like that. Again, if you're in Australia, it varies between Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne and all the other outlying cities of Perth and Adelaide and Darwin and so on and so forth. So you need to think about what the market can sustain. If you're a retail expert,

the amount of money that they're going to be paid is a lot lower. If you're at SaaS software, SaaS, AI, tech, you'd be able to charge higher. If you're going into government, you'd be able to charge higher, right? So you have to have a think about all of that in context to what you can, you know, what you can charge. So establish your pricing, establish whether you want to charge by the day, by the hour, by the month. Monthly retainers is our preferred.

model, so X amount of $1,000 a month and then linking that to KPIs. Not linking it to time, which you may still have to do a bit of that, but linking it to KPIs. I will do this, I will achieve this, I will do this, I will make sure we do this. That's what you are sitting in there. Now, if you can do all that for half a day, client doesn't care. You're hitting the targets that they want.

Think about that. You may sit there and go, will also commit to two half days in the office or, you know, video calls whenever you need them, et cetera, et but think about your pricing and service models. I'd love to say you could do all this from working from home. The reality is that that bandwagon is moving back in the other direction. Now clients want people in the office.

nothing you can do about that and you are gonna lose out to somebody who can go into the office. Especially if you're in industries like manufacturing and retail and stuff where they want you to see what it is that they do. They want you to be in there touching and feeling and being part of that business. So think about that. Last three points.

⁓ Build your professional network. I mean, this might seem obvious, but again, do this before you leave your full time role. Get onto LinkedIn, build your network, go to networking events, go to industry events, get out, have coffee with people. It seems laborious and it seems like a painful thing to have to do, but I can't stress enough how you need to have a business network of people.

that will be there to help support you. I've used this phrase before and I must do a video on it at some point. ⁓ We all know what a BFF is, best friend forever, right? And I have this concept of ⁓ BBFF, which is business best friend forever. And the idea being is like a best friend forever,

It's someone that you meet up with a regular basis, talk to on a regular basis, share anecdotes, share stories, have a beer, have some lunch, have a coffee, whatever it is. But a business best friend forever is looking out for you, is potentially looking for referrals for you, is wanting to introduce you to clients in the same way that you are then doing that for them as well. So if you could sit there and go, hey, maybe I've got 20 BBFFs.

And you have this little core network of people that work, that you know well, who are going to refer you, introduce you, invite you to events, invite you to things that perhaps you wouldn't have gotten invited to in the first instance. That is super important. You build that network before you leave your full-time role. People that will refer you, introduce you, invite you. That is what a good professional network.

does. Now, I would say that there's 20 people that you want to keep close to you, but I would say beyond that, you probably want about 100 people in that Rolodex. Now, again, as is my way, there is a famous story of a financier in New York. I'm not talking, ⁓ I'm not talking the man with the island. But there's a famous financier in

New York who had a Rolodex who still years recently still had a Rolodex and in that Rolodex was everybody he'd ever spoken to but in that Rolodex or important people that he'd ever spoken to. People that he felt were essential to his business growth and in that Rolodex was their name, their contact details, their birthday, their wife, husband's name, their children's name, where they lived, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

He had a little biography of every person he knew. So that when he caught up with them, the first thing he would ring up and say, how's your husband doing? Or how's your wife doing? All right? And he'd use their first name. So how's Jane doing? How's Joe doing?

That's what a professional network is. And I'm gonna digress on this one as well because I think this is an important lesson to understand. There was a study done in American high schools, long-term study over, think, if I remember rightly, 300 high schools. And they went to the high school and they said to everybody, who is the most popular person in this high school?

What they were trying to do was understand popularity in schools and what makes some children more popular than other children. And it was a big study and they came up with, interestingly, a singular conclusive reason for popularity. And before I tell you what that is, think about that. And when I tell you what it is, take it to the business world and we're going to do that afterwards.

It had nothing to do with sports prowess, intellectual capabilities, family names, nothing like that. The most popular kids in American schools were the ones that did what I would describe as micro-acknowledgements of the other children. So they would be walking down the hallway or in the cafeteria or outside or even outside school in the real world. And they would be going, hey Steve, how you doing?

Good see you, Simple micro-acknowledgements of other people. Acknowledging that other people existed and that they had been seen by you. That was what made kids popular. The ones that did that and did that frequently, consistently and well were the popular kids. So those kids that were just walking down the hallways going, hey, how you doing? Nice to see you. Like your new bag. Your jacket looks great, et cetera, et cetera.

Compliments, acknowledgements, awareness. And you'll see that all throughout life. If you drop your kids at school like I do, there is always one parent, and I think of one specifically right now, who says hello to everybody, who stops and has a conversation with everybody. Everybody knows him, everybody likes him. Right? I try and do that to the best of my ability. ⁓ But this one specific person does it so well.

so that I know that if anyone, if he asked anybody for any help or they would immediately help him out. It's the same if you're in an office. If you go into an office, walk the floor in the morning, that's what everyone suggests, walk the floor, say hello to everybody, meet people, greet them, say hello, ask them how their weekend was, talk about a favourite TV show, but just, you don't have to go into that depth, you just go, hello, hey, how you doing? If you can add a you know, little flare onto the end of it, like,

or the better, but just micro-acknowledgements. So take that to your fractional CMO career. If you do micro-acknowledgements of people, be that on LinkedIn, face-to-face, on email, phone calls, whatever it is, micro-acknowledgements. See if you can do five micro-acknowledgements every day, five different people, make a list of them. Start doing micro-acknowledgements, see how that then starts to benefit your business.

So my point there, build a professional network, do that, build, think about who are the people, your BBFFs could be accountants. Specifically, let's talk about fractional CMOs. So that network could comprise of other fractional CMOs, accountants, business coaches, consultants, people that are talking to the decision-making people that require marketing leadership. That's your network.

Last two things, get your contract right. Now, if you're working through us, we'll handle that all for you, but if you're not gonna work through us, get a contract that you can send to people and you're comfortable that it is watertight.

Get a lawyer involved. Farah, my partner from Prosper Law has done one of these recently. Talk to her, get a contract. She will help you out. Something that when you put in front of the client, go, this is my contract. The contract should have... ⁓

Obviously, you know, at the end of schedule of things that you're gonna do, but also terms and how they pay you and how frequently they pay you and how quickly they need to pay you. We have a system where we charge a security fine, that's security fine, security deposit, which sits in a secondary bank account as we find it at the end of the contract. That's important. Okay.

Now you may not be able to do that, there may not be something that's possible for you to do within the framework of your business. ⁓ But have a think about those things. That's what should all be in the contract. So there's no surprises. And they don't sit there six weeks in and go, didn't know that that was there. Make it very, very clear. You don't want a 10 page contract, a three page contract that outlines everything that's gonna happen is all you need.

Again, listen to FARA, you need to talk about intellectual property, who's liable if something goes wrong, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Get your contract right.

The last two things, which is number 10, and I actually had a bonus one at the end because I think the last one that I'm gonna talk about actually applies across the whole 10 things, right? But the 10th one is to get your first client before you leave your full-time job. Now, I understand that there are some potential conflicts of interest in that.

but you need to leave your job. And this is why I talk about, you know, eliminating cash flows and things like that. ⁓ you know, ⁓ protecting your cash flow by building up cash reserves, okay? Because if you can't do this number 10, then you need to make sure you're doing the other one, one or the other, right? But get your first client before you leave your full-time job. Now, that's hard, you potentially squirreling away around behind your your client, yeah, sorry, your employer's back.

But I would say to you, if you can get that first client who goes, hey, I want you to consult to me. When are you ready to start? And you go, hey, I got a four weeks notice with my current employer. I can start on this date. If they're happy with that, you know that you're going from one straight into another client.

That's probably the hardest one I've said out of these 10 things. But if you can do that, and I was lucky enough to do that, I was lucky enough to go with two. And I think one was on a $7,000 a month retainer and one was on a $5,000 a month retainer. And remember, out of that, I've got costs, insurance, superannuation, tax, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

but that at least gave me a really good bass to start with. And if you can do that, it makes that leap so much easier. It gives you confidence, it gives you... ⁓

the safety net of not having to stare at your bank account wondering when money's going to

So work to that. If you've got an employer and you go, hey, it's my long-term goal to get out of this business, but that might take me six months to a year. I want to start my own thing. Plan, plan, plan, plan, plan, plan, start identifying potential clients, start doing all the things that I've said. Okay. And I'll quickly whip through them. Number one, clarify your niche in your target market. Two, define your value proposition, framework and processes. Three, build a strong brand. Four, prepare cash reserves.

Five, get your case studies up and running. Six, get your business structure sorted. Seven, establish pricing and service models. Eight, build your professional network. Nine, get a contract done. And 10, get your first client before you leave your full-time job. And my last bonus one at the end, and I fucking hate this word, right? But it is so applicable to what you're doing as a fractional CMO. You need to hustle, right?

That is the reality of business as a consultant, especially in the first six months, 12 months, maybe even two years, you are hustling. If there is a coffee with somebody, go and have that coffee. If there is a network event, go to that networking event. If there is a lunch, go to the lunch. You might come out of that game, well, that was a fucking waste of time. Absolutely, it may be a waste of time, right?

I still do it to today. went to something Friday. There was five people in the room. Okay. I made two good contacts out of that room. Okay. It's, it's hustling, right? It's that Gary V horrible. You got a hustle thing, but you do. And I've advised people on this before I devised an events business and she said,

I don't want to do that. I said, but that's business. That's business for the first couple of years of your business life. Just hustling, talking to people, building relationships, building that network, growing those connections, keeping in contact with those people, whether that's phone calls, SMS. SMS is a hugely powerful tool. think people don't pay attention to a little SMS here or there invites to events, all those kinds of things hustle. And again,

hate that word, but it's probably the best word for this. So look, that's gone on a lot longer than I anticipated, as is my normal way. ⁓ But I think if you're gonna start a fractional CMO business and you're gonna go out there, that's 40 minutes that I think is worth listening to. You may disagree, you may sit there and go, Simon, that was terrible. But I genuinely believe that those are the things that if I was in that position today,

I would be going to do. Now, I can go through those bits and I probably will go through those bits one by one. A little bit more in detail as we move forward. But there's 10 steps there before you become a fractional CMO.

take into the account, start working on those, get yourself aligned, start building a network, start looking at clients. When you go, come and talk to us. Obviously we wanna help you go from one client to six clients. And I say this to everybody, from our perspective, that's how we make our money. We make a small cut of what you take. ⁓ It is with no interest with us for you being quiet, for you having no work, right?

it is absolutely imperative for us that you're busy. It's the only way we make money is if you're making money. So that's the key thing for us. So we wanna help support and grow that for you. I hope that's useful. Once again, if you wanna reach out to me, Simon at simo.com, I'm on LinkedIn. Those are probably the best two options to reach out to me. And of course, blatant plug of the book at the end here as well.

⁓ There you go, which unfortunately is mirrored now. So hopefully that's around the other way. ⁓

Go and buy this please. ⁓ Sound desperate there, but it would be good. It's a great book. I even say that myself. I think it's a great book. ⁓ Thank you for tuning in. ⁓ Much appreciated and ⁓ yeah, as I say, any questions, please email me.