S2 I EP.19 - Connection Over Content: Marketing That Feels Human With Alison Dean

Alison Dean (00:00)

you

Simon Dell (00:00)

Welcome

to the SEMO Marketing Podcast, the SEMO Fractional Marketing Podcast, or whatever I've decided to call us this week. My name is Simon Dell. I'm the CEO of SEMO. If you don't know nothing about us, come and find out about us on SEMO.C-E-M-O-H.com. If you've been here before, then welcome back. We are going to talk about connection today. Not as in the Telstra sense of my

phone line and and all that sort of stuff, but in the proper human connection. and I'm lucky enough to have Alison at Dean with me. So welcome to the show, Alison. First things first, let's give us the give us the two-minute Alison story. Now when I ask people to do this, I'm like imagine it is a movie trailer and you've got to get all the best bits of what you've done so far in your life into a two-minute movie trailer.

Alison Dean (00:40)

Thank

Simon Dell (00:57)

Ideally with some explosions and and and but no sex scenes. So if that if you get

Alison Dean (01:00)

along the way. You won't get that from me. I'm a

bit old for that now. Hi everyone, welcome to the podcast this morning. Thank you so much Simon for having me. I'm really thrilled to be here this morning.

Simon Dell (01:19)

My pleasure.

Alison Dean (01:20)

I have been 20 years in business this year, which is a bit of a milestone, always in marketing and the brand space. I started in one of the largest ad agencies in Sydney, was Cleminger back in the day, and was working there with a lot of multinational brands that were desperately wanting to look for this connection that we're going to talk about today. Now, to preface this by saying these were in the days before digital media.

Simon Dell (01:35)

yeah.

Alison Dean (01:50)

Facebook, there was no Instagram, but these brands knew if they wanted to get in touch with these customers, they needed those customers to touch, feel, sample their product. we called it back then experiential marketing, it's all about experience, and they felt that they wanted to earn that trust through the customer. in my journey, I couldn't find it. I couldn't find a lot of these opportunities for people to touch and feel

these you know multinational brands. We would go to places like shopping malls and all those kind of places but there wasn't something specific where you could target your ideal target market. So what did I do? I founded the High Tea Party. Now a very cute brand but there was a reason for it and it was to attract the right women to come along to this event. So over 15 years of that 20 years I've been in business I created this live expo.

that brought about 30,000 women, a lot of women through the doors every year. We ran one in each state of Australia and then in Auckland in New Zealand. Now think about it like this Simon, it was like an idea of flipping that expo on its head and forget about the brands for a moment and think about it as a customer experience. going back to what these brands wanted, they wanted those customers to really trust them.

So I flipped it and made it all about the women. Again, the high tea party, cute brand, but it was also what can we do to wine, dine them, give them fashion, all those things that allowed them to have that exceptional day and of course walk out with, you know, products in their hand and services the companies are involved. So I think...

Simon Dell (03:38)

Okay. Yeah.

Alison Dean (03:42)

What I learnt most about that time is that people buy from people they feel connected to. And I suppose during that time, I still needed to run a business and the business was to build it, something that was scalable. And then I sold that to a media company that wanted that amount of volume and moved on now as I am now to a fractional CMO. And I'm hoping when I say that

Simon Dell (04:03)

Right.

Alison Dean (04:12)

I work for founders with their own businesses and their own ideas and trying to really strip marketing back because with AI and all the world out there, it feels very chaotic. So that's where I'm at. Did I do it in two minutes? No sex scenes though.

Simon Dell (04:25)

Okay. No, that was terrible. That was not even close to two minutes, Alex. That

that there was no explosions as well. I was waiting for that, but nothing.

Alison Dean (04:36)

What about 30,000 women? That was explosion, I tell you.

Simon Dell (04:39)

That was explos that was explosive. Yes, probably. okay, a lot to unpack there.

a lot to unpack for half half an hour. look, my first question is how do you make something like that thirty thousand women? I mean, obviously it wasn't all thirty thousand women at the you know, at the same time, but how do you make the something like the high tea party where these brands want to connect with these these these women?

Alison Dean (04:56)

No, no, not at all.

Simon Dell (05:07)

How do you make that not feel like a salesy promotional event? How does it not feel like it's a you know, like Oprah used to do where, you know, you get a car and you get a car and all that kind of and all and everyone, how do how do you make it not feel like that?

Alison Dean (05:23)

I think the biggest thing about the event was like I talked about it was all about the experience of the guest. Anywhere you went there was nothing, it was all about the experience. So if you had a hair care product there, the girls were getting their hair done. They didn't have to buy the product. They were there to get their hair done. So as part of the ticket price, it was all about get your hair done, have your nails done, watch a fashion show and then I would ticket price it.

Simon Dell (05:42)

Excuse me. Right.

Alison Dean (05:53)

with all day champagne, all day food, that you were making it more about them and their experiences and the brands were separate to that because at the end of the day the feeling that they got for coming into the room was well what has Alison got for them this year? Not what's Alison selling to them. So it was all about the feeling which is coming back to what we're going to talk about is about connection and how you scale that is all about the trust.

Simon Dell (06:11)

Right.

Alison Dean (06:25)

and that the people have that feeling about your brand before you even start to sell. That's marketing to me.

Simon Dell (06:32)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. All right. I was gonna I was gonna ask a very insightful question there and I've completely forgotten what it was because then you said something else and then I went off on a my brain went off on another tangent there completely. but what did what did you doing that doing those live events must have taught you some stuff that that running an agency or being part of a Kleminger was

Alison Dean (06:46)

Yeah.

Simon Dell (07:02)

had had never taught you. There I mean there's gotta be some some key learnings once you are physically in front of these potential buyers. What did you what did you what was prop the key learning you made you got out of

Alison Dean (07:10)

Mmm.

I think that especially coming back into this era of me being a fractional CMO and reflecting back on what I learned a lot is that...

People don't have a marketing problem. Everyone knows how to do something out there. know how to post a Facebook post. They know how to set up a channel. But I suppose the biggest thing I learned was that it's harder for people to be seen but not felt.

like no one is listening. So for me to have this microcosm of an event set up to kind of say you come into this microcosm brand and you'll be seen wholeheartedly in this space with no other competitors. So for example, I never had two haircare products or two nail products. You have, you are that product.

Simon Dell (07:56)

Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Dean (08:18)

but you're absolutely being seen and therefore connected with that client because they can't see anybody else and make a choice. It's all about that. So I suppose being reflecting on that now is, you know, people forget that marketing is like telling your story like you're at a dinner party.

versus how you want your story to look like in a beautiful brochure. And I think that is what the Tea Party was really about too, is that it's not all simple and fabulous. It's I'm talking to real women and I'm talking to them and I'm building the community around it. And that was a very big part of it at the time. It was just not the live events. It was how we communicated between events. know, Sydney would only get one event a year. So therefore,

Simon Dell (08:53)

Yeah.

Alison Dean (09:12)

I had to make sure that I continued to keep these Sydney women, for example, engaged for the whole 12 months. And then we moved to Melbourne and things like that. So I think now, especially in this era, people don't want to see something polished. They want to see something real. that's, I feel like that feeling is what I created at the tea party, is that feeling.

Simon Dell (09:33)

Yeah. So I

and and look, and I mean I I love what you I I love what you created there and I you know, and obviously I can see I can see the success based on the fact there was thirty thousand women that wanted to go to these things. But but I why d why is nobody doing that now? Or or are people doing this now and I'm just I'm oblivious to it? Because it strikes me that that you you've you've

Alison Dean (09:56)

Thank

Simon Dell (10:00)

niche down you niche down at women and and I suspect those women were in a certain fit demographic you know that they they fitted within a certain you know a certain age and whatever it was right but this this strikes me that this would work in all demographics or lots of demo different demographics why why why is nobody doing it like this

Alison Dean (10:05)

Yep. Yep.

I suppose when you create a live event like that, the infrastructure and the processes and systems that you have to put in place for the one female that's coming to feel that special connection, to feel part of it, is quite...

difficult to say the least. So you know I did things like come into my ballroom but you're not going to sit with 10 other strangers like a normal ballroom set up. I'm going to sit you in a table of two if you've come with your mother or a table of 10 if you've come with your girlfriends. So we see that like a restaurant. Now to make a large hotel like the Hilton Soffitel and all the places I hosted these events do that.

Simon Dell (10:49)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm.

Alison Dean (11:18)

is, you know, it's something that has to be really understood by them that it's not a normal event. Then I would turn that ballroom over to get through those 5,000 women that would come to each event and 30,000 nationally. I'd turn the ballroom over eight times in a weekend.

Simon Dell (11:31)

Yeah.

Alison Dean (11:38)

To make it that special and that connected was a team. Now when the media company bought it off me, COVID hit unfortunately, so that went downhill at the time. So they were...

Simon Dell (11:43)

Yeah.

Wow, what that was a good that

was a good time to get out then by the sounds of it.

Alison Dean (11:56)

So their whole premise was, this is the live magazine for us. So as we know, magazines are not the first thing you pick up anymore, but this was going to be that for them post-COVID, was that they picked this up and use it as the you know, a live magazine where you had all the interactive spaces. So I suppose that's the answer to it, that it is to get that feeling you have to put the work in.

and you have to feel like each guest. But because I was a small business, which is very different than me being part of a bigger agency, this was my livelihood as I created and owned it. So every person that came into me was like, well, that's my income as a business owner. So I'm going to treat them, every single one of them with a feeling that...

Simon Dell (12:37)

Mm.

Alison Dean (12:47)

I can't believe that you'd like to come to my event. that warmth, I think, is part of it because it was owned by a small business as opposed to a large.

Simon Dell (12:59)

Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about that warmth because the question I have is that that warmth of that one real conversation. when businesses scale, there's a there's the there's the obvious there's the obvious problem that that warmth can tend to cool down a little bit. sometimes a lot.

Alison Dean (13:24)

Yep.

Simon Dell (13:27)

where where do you normally see that warmth dying first?

Alison Dean (13:33)

Yeah, I think, in this era of AI as well, it's very easy to market, right? You can make a thousand posts in a week.

your content is never scarce, you've got volume constantly. But I think the warmth comes from being human, right? So I'm taking people in my, and the people that I support with my Fractional CMO business, back to being that genuine human touch again. And saying to them things like, you know, the local fruit shop owner, why did my parents go back to that fruit shop every week to buy those apples? It's the feeling, it's the story behind

Simon Dell (13:54)

Mm.

Alison Dean (14:16)

I'm the human, it's the interaction. And so what I'm saying now to people is you can write a thousand posts with AI.

And you're genuinely can keep that up. But what is it that that customer actually wants to know? And what is the message you can only write about your business? And I say it again and again to people like there's 10 electricians that live in my street. What is the one thing that would make you

go to one over the other. That's the feeling I'm talking about and people miss that when they scale because they're talking about products first or describing features and that comes down to it's time to make sure that you know

we protect that humanness and we protect when AI is doing the volume, let's talk about the story, let's listen to our customers. You know, I've got a client at the moment that he's quite a large manufacturer in educational products and 80 % of his work come from him as the CEO doing demonstrations of their product. But he will never change that.

Simon Dell (15:29)

Yeah.

Alison Dean (15:33)

because he knows how to sell his products. So how does he scale that? He goes into different industries, he does those things, he makes his team make sure that they know how to scale and how he shares his ideas with those potential customers. So it's in all of those types of messaging pieces. You can put your message out, but let's not.

Simon Dell (15:33)

No.

Yeah.

Alison Dean (15:58)

over complicate what we're trying to do. Let's strip everything back and be simple. And the story is always simple. You created a business for a reason because you wanted to help that particular customer, regardless of if it's a product or service. Now let's talk in their language, not your own.

Simon Dell (16:04)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It it's funny you you mentioned that that CEO doing the product demo. I I remember coaching a I say coaching, mentoring it, a CEO who had a who had a rather large it's it's some sort of industrial supply business. It was a while ago, I can't quite remember what it was. but as he'd grown the business, he was still the one who did all of the sales calls. And

He was, you know, I remember saying to him in the the session, going, Why why are you doing this? You've got people doing every other part of the business and the finance and the operations and delivery and manufacture and sourcing and all those kind of bits and pieces. Why don't you just hire someone to do the sales calls? And 'cause he used to sit there for eight hours a day doing sales calls. That was his job as the CEO, right? And he turned around, he's just said, he goes, I really like doing them.

Alison Dean (17:15)

That's right.

Simon Dell (17:15)

He said I

really like talking to the customer. And you know, now I look back on it and I go, that was his, that was his that was his way of maintaining that warmth, of maintaining that that quest that that sort of engagement with the customer, even as he got bigger and bigger and bigger, he was still the one making that call.

Alison Dean (17:33)

Mmm.

and know

it's interesting that is because people go into business because they're passionate about a product.

Simon Dell (17:47)

Mm.

Alison Dean (17:48)

I mean, my work as a CMO is to take that passion of a product and make sure you flip it so that you're talking to the customer, not, here's our product, us. That's the difference is that, you know, when you think you're not selling enough, it probably isn't because you need an agency to run another.

Simon Dell (18:04)

Mm.

Alison Dean (18:11)

or you need another channel like TikTok or you need another something happening it's because the real issue is that you're talking to everyone but you're never talking to someone specific. So when my client is on that phone call he's got the right person in the palm of his hands and he knows that his product solves that problem so he actually isn't selling.

because that is his ideal customer and the product was made for them or even at some points in conjunction with them because he went to market and said, what do you need? So that was where the warmth is, I think as well, is that it's not a one-way street, it's a two-way conversation and negative and positive feedback about your business is always good.

Simon Dell (18:48)

Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Dean (19:02)

Like I remember a lot of times at the high tea party where the scones were, where the scones were hard and the sandwiches were, you go, that is good to know. Cause I want to feed back to that person that I want to get it right. I want to make a difference for that. So yeah.

Simon Dell (19:19)

Yeah.

look, y you spoke about AI a little bit in your original brief when we we were talk discussing, having this conversation. And I think there was a sentence you said you you most people have AI backwards. and that it doesn't make marketing easier, it makes everything sound the same. So so talk me talk me through that because the the danger is we all we're all using AI, we're all starting to tap into it and that all it's gonna do is just create

Alison Dean (19:38)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Simon Dell (19:49)

The same same, same, but different.

Alison Dean (19:51)

exactly. And I think AI is a tool that is, you know, is one of those phenomenal, phenomenal parts of history that we're sitting in right now that will allow us to, you know, multiply our workloads in a heartbeat. And clearly in my business, that is something that I'm, you know, consistently using. So I am not sitting here saying,

that AI is not a great tool because absolutely it is. But what AI can't do for you is be your creative head. So how you are as a founder and why you are in business and why you've built the product or service, unless you are do unless you have built that in to feel genuinely human and to not trust what it outputs.

Simon Dell (20:26)

Yeah.

Alison Dean (20:48)

to test the boundaries of it, to make sure it feels like you, to put the time and the energy in first, and we call it strategy here, you know, in marketing terminology, but getting those pillars right, making sure we're having the right message, we're writing the right message, then that's the part where I'm saying is don't let it be your strategy, still sit down in a room with people and build

Simon Dell (20:51)

Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Dean (21:18)

it together with the people that are in your business or outside of your business to really formulate exactly what you want to say in market, then use it. So maybe not backwards but there's a step before it that people are just going straight in and seeing these answers which are you know fabulous, it's brilliant, it's producing but unless we're going to put out

real information about your business you're just going to be average you're going to be talking to everyone again you're going to be drowning in what looks like AI and we can all see things out there already that are AI you know use it for that 80 % that's what it's there for but don't forget the formula is to still be 20 % in your business to make sure the message is clear and protect that

protect that it's still the same that will not change as we move forward in you know this AI era it will not change it is how you will stand out will be because you're human how you will stand out is that like I'm saying is the connection

you know, people trust people, that's why they buy your product. Whether you're B2B, you're emotional, you know, I've gone to many clients that if you don't emotionally connect, you don't get the job, whether you're the best in the room. So that's what I'm saying to founders out there as well is be, yeah, go Sun.

Simon Dell (22:51)

So so

what does that what does that translate to? Because I think again, you you said the one thing you can't automate is about is is is about to become the most valuable thing that you have, right? Which I think is a great quote, right? All the things you're saying there, I think everybody goes, yeah, get that. I completely get that. What what does a founder do on a Monday morning with that?

Alison Dean (23:04)

Mmm. Mmm.

Simon Dell (23:15)

Right? When they've listened to this over the weekend and they sit there and go, Well, Alison's right. I need to I need to be better at building connections. Do they do they, if they're the CEO, do they sit there and go, Yeah, actually I'm gonna sit and make the phone calls? You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna do that. What what what what would you say is a is a is a simple step for them to take Monday morning?

Alison Dean (23:37)

You know, I think the first thing is, is to talk about your business like you're talking to a friend about it, number one. Like can you formalise, people call it an elevator pitch, forget the elevator pitch. Talk to me about, when you get to work on a Monday morning, let's talk about the three biggest things that your business does that completely is,

hits the pain points of that customer. So what is it that they do? Then let's talk about whether that is actually being put out in messaging because sometimes we put out things that we're all cluttered and chaotic about, this is the new product we've got out there so let's talk about this then let's talk about this.

do those things but what are we telling that story consistently all the time? So let's bring it back to basics. So on Monday morning after they've listened to this I'd say right go back to basics why did I start the business?

Let's review what our marketing is doing and tell our story. I've got a community centre that I'm working with who've been in market for 50 years doing the most wonderful work in Sydney for people that have aged care, want to stay in their own home, they support them with services. We've got a 50 year history. Now when I go and look at their messaging...

They're not speaking about how they're evolving. They're not speaking about where they're going to next. They're not talking about the future. Yes, let's talk about the past, but where are they going? So I have to frame that and make sure that they are talking online and also face to face with one clear message. And that's what I'd say to them.

Simon Dell (25:30)

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. well just to to close then,

Alison Dean (25:35)

Yeah.

Simon Dell (25:38)

What we've talked about that let's talk about money because it's a question that obviously I get asked a lot and I suspect you get asked a lot is investing in this warmth, right? Investing in this communication, let's take it back all the way to the to the to the high tea party. You and I both know that doing those kind of things for brands pays off.

Alison Dean (25:45)

Mm-hmm

Yep.

Yep.

Simon Dell (26:08)

In the end, right? And it may not pay off the following day, it may not pay off the following meek, week, it might take a month, it might take six months, right? That's a that's a hard. Some some businesses who don't necessarily understand marketing, you know, and and this is a bit new to them. That's sometimes a hard ask for them to sort of go, hey, invest this money in what is essentially brand building, brand awareness here, and

Alison Dean (26:09)

Mm-hmm.

Simon Dell (26:39)

This may pay off in six months' time. Right? Did you ever get that kind of pushback when you were doing that with the the the high tea party that they couldn't see that they couldn't potentially see the results happening instantly? Right? So that was that was one that was one question. And then the second thing is then how do you how did you encourage them to

put a put a price on this because if they're gonna come and spend thousands of dollars with you understanding that return on investment is must has for some of them been a challenge.

Alison Dean (27:09)

Mm.

Yeah, first and foremost let's talk tea party first. The microcosm I talk about was based on

you do this and you will see an instant return on investment because the instant return on investment was those women walked out the door with products. So if I gave you an example of a fashion brand that did a capsule wardrobe, do you know what a capsule wardrobe is Simon? Yep, great, capsule wardrobe, that's all they showed is what was available to purchase on the day, nothing more. That brand would show it on real women.

Simon Dell (27:42)

Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Dean (27:55)

not stick figure women, real women, and they'd go out the door and purchase 25 grand worth of product. So my micro, that's how I ran it, is that you will see a result instantly. Your sponsorship of this event was self-liquidating because you'd walk out with sales. So that's number one. Number two, when I talk to clients now about how you invest in this.

or why you would invest in this and pay thousands of dollars is well what happens if you don't because again

You are talking to nobody if you do not know who you were talking to. And if I was to say, and I'm not, if I was to say any other marketing that you do, that you put yourself in a room with someone so that you are very clear about who you are as a business and what your messaging is and who your audience is and why you are a business. If you do one of those things and run your entire campaigns, activate, execute through Claude, through AI and all the tools we have.

Simon Dell (28:48)

Mm-hmm.

Alison Dean (28:58)

do that one thing because that is about the connection and that is where CMOs and those types of people are able to pull that out of you. I'm not a rocket scientist, it's not my business that I go into businesses. I listen and I find those nuggets of wisdom that they have for what they've produced and it excites me because of that. So if I was to do one thing is to get that message right because if you don't you'll spend thousands on nothing.

Simon Dell (29:27)

Yeah. Wise words. Alison, thank you very much. and so if if anyone wants to if anyone wants to reach out to you, what's the best way of getting a hold of you?

Alison Dean (29:31)

Thanks, Salmi. Appreciate it.

Yeah, so the peppermint group is my website, so thepeppermintgroup.com.au and you can always find me on Instagram at Alison L Dean as well. love anybody to, even if you just want to chat.

Simon Dell (29:51)

Awesome.

And and I'd assume you're on LinkedIn as well, but there may be a few Allison Deans out.

Alison Dean (29:57)

I A

few Alison Deans out there, probably no Peppermint Group ones. Thanks, Simon, I appreciate it.

Simon Dell (30:04)

Perfect. All right. Thank you very much for your time today. It's super

helpful. And and again, if anybody does want to reach out to Alison, by all means, you can reach out to her direct or you can find her through SEMO.com as well. Cool.

Alison Dean (30:18)

Fabulous.

Take care, everyone.